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EvilJay
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 Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| dan_T_jones wrote: | That's very interesting arebirt. I am not an artist nor do I have any vested interest in the tattoo industry but for what it is worth I think the whole community needs to step up and do something proactive, cohesive and resolute in addressing this problem of quality control.
I agree that it is poor form for governments across the world to refuse to recognise tattooing as a legitimate industry that needs bureaucratic regulation and administration. However this attitude will never change if everyday, properly trained artists decide not to bother rectifying it. Unless the industry forms a united from and creates industry standards that should be adhered to the government will never bother trying to update it's antiquated legislation.
There needs to be an association where EVERY legit studio in America, Australia etc is a member and adheres to the set guidelines concerning quality control, shop hygiene, apprenticing & training etc. It is vital that every decent studio embraces this because it only takes a few genuine shops not to be members for the whole idea to go to shit. It needs to be important to the customer that while this guy charges more the bloke down the road isn't a member of the ...Association. This way the industry starts to do its own house cleaning and is a lot closer to be federally recognised as a proper Industry. [/u] |
The problem is that as long as you meet the minimum SAFTEY requirments, the rest is subjective. QUALITY is discresionary. If the consumer is "happy" with the product they are buying, who is going to say they don't meet the minimum "quality" requirment. It's like custom motorcycles. Theres guys that are "master" builders that are the best at what they do, and charge accordingly, then there are the others at every level down the chain. Usually you get what you pay for. You can buy a $200 stove or a $2000 stove for your kitchen. As long as neither will burn your house down, they are both "legal" to sell. The quality on the other hand, is subject to debate.... |
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arebirt
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: |
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Again this goes back to a funny issue with tattooing. This is why tattooing is so inexpensive compared to other types of cosmetic changes to a persons body. There is no way to legislate art. It's subjective. We are treated more like a service industry rather than a health professional, even though we pose just as many health risk as a dentist. In order for a tattoo shop to be as sterile as a hospital/ dentist office we would need a full time staff. Meaning each tattooer would need a tattooers aid, a clean up crew to maintain the cleanliness of the shop and a receptionist. You would need an insurance policy to get tattooed. Now none of these things is what any tattooer wants, because it's all just red tape and has nothing to do with art. Tattooing would cost an ungodly amount if this happened and nobody would be able to get tattooed without an insurance policy. Again there would be no way to legislate sucking at art and technically sucking at tattooing. Because art can only be judged by opinion.
If somebody says the tattoo wasn't perfect I guess that depends on skin types, the person who got tattooed and finally the person performing it. Now that comes down to specific technical application. Some tattooers are proficient and technically sound and can handle most situations. Their degree of preciseness varies. Than there are others who have absolutely no nack for it. They will never do a solid tattoo, they just don't have it them. But how do you judge that? You can't because it's opinion based. I know some tattooers that line amazingly, while some color better, while others shade smoother, some have the whole package, but can't draw to save their lives. I know some guys that draw amazing, but their tattooing itself is extremely lacking. Again it's all subjective, do you all know what I am saying? You can't legislate things that can only be judged by opinion, there is too much grey to say what is black and white. The only thing you can legislate is health department standards. So that's why it's at where it is at.
So this is where it starts.
You guys are the clients, stop getting crappy tattoos. The less of you buying tattoos form dumb assholes the better it is fore everybody. Be smart and chose wisely it's a buyer beware market. Don't go somewhere cheaper, there's a reason why people are cheaper. It's because they lack business. They lack business because the suck, if they where any good they could afford to charge more. Listen to the tattooer you finally decide upon. They aren't trying to fuck you over, they want to do the best tattoo they can on you. If they are telling that it won't work it's of no benefit to them to do that. They are losing a "sale" if you have to call it that. If they are to busy it's only because clients are impatient. Some tattooers are booked for long periods of time. Showing up unannounced and expecting immediate results is stupid. With tattooing patience is always better.
Lastly for all these people that want to be apprentices, stop sucking so hard. That's the number one reason most of them can't get an apprenticeship. It's because they are aweful and and I know art is subjective, but come on now. Just like how I expect clients to have some smarts about who they pick to tattoo them, I expect the same from the people that want in on this field. Not everybody with a pencil that draws crappy shit in a binder is an artist. Most of you are day dreamers at best, if you want to be good invest in it. Go to artschool, find a private arc approved art atelier to learn at. Do it for 5-6 years and than maybe when it's done see if you really think you got it. When you finally decide you want an apprenticeship after you got rid of the sucking so hard part and for most of you you will probably still suck, because you can't teach talent. This is where you will need to look at yourself in the mirror and really be honest with yourself.
If somehow you finally pass this stage before entering a tattoo shop. Look serious, I can't tell you how many douche bags come in to tattoo shops every week instantly asking where to buy equipment. EBAY! I am not saying it's good equipment, but there's everything you could ever want to suck so stop coming into tattoo shops driving people crazy asking where to buy equipment. If you really really want an apprenticeship, it will come because you're serious, you have a great portfolio of art and you're not a know it all flakey too cool for school jerk.
Now I know a lot of what I am saying is harsh, but it's the truth that I am speaking. I am not trying to discourage dreams, I am not trying to put anybody down directly. What I am saying is that not everybody with a tattoo machine is a good tattooer. And not everybody with a stack of drawings can be an apprentice. Lastly for the clients, it's your body's stop paying the worst people ever to mess up your skin. In the end it's nobody's fault but your own.
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MattCrunk
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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What kind of apprenticeship deal you can strike depends on a number of factors. If you are very artistic and develop a good rapport with the artist/shop owner, you may be able to get a free apprenticeship - FREE meaning only that you may not be charged any money up front. You will always "pay" for your training through doing grunt work for the shop and eventually tattooing for very little pay (if any at all) during your apprenticeship period. That's just part of the deal.
We don't train new people just to be nice guys. We do it because we get something out of the deal. You either pay with money or service. Your choice.
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arebirt
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| MattCrunk wrote: | What kind of apprenticeship deal you can strike depends on a number of factors. If you are very artistic and develop a good rapport with the artist/shop owner, you may be able to get a free apprenticeship - FREE meaning only that you may not be charged any money up front. You will always "pay" for your training through doing grunt work for the shop and eventually tattooing for very little pay (if any at all) during your apprenticeship period. That's just part of the deal.
We don't train new people just to be nice guys. We do it because we get something out of the deal. You either pay with money or service. Your choice. |
This is amazingly true. I never paid money for it, but I sure as hell scrubbed a lot of tubes, got a lot of lunches and redrew, outlined and reworked a bazillion old flash sheets. Clean up toilets, vomit, set up stations and made what seemed like a never ending collection of needles. Never mind the long hours and long, long, long learning curve. When I finally started I didn't get paid to tattoo, it was an honor. I was lucky if I got a tip. And when I started my cut was so low it was barely as good as working at a grocery store full time. Slowly and I mean like 3 years slow it was until I got 50% of my earnings and never mind I paid for about 90% of my supplies. I was the brokest of the brokest the whole time.
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