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OAKPOTSMOKE
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 Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| caps for the loss |
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sidelvar
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| OAKPOTSMOKE wrote: | | caps for the loss |
Irony
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Angertank
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| dan_T_jones wrote: | I agree man. The other day I saw a debate over the cervical vaccine ( I can't remember what it's called but basically it prevents cancer) and whether parents should get their children vaccinated.
They were worried it would give the wrong impression (as in the kids would think they couldn't get genital disease with the vaccine) and that it was too "adult" to give a small child. It was the most idiotic case of conservatism I'd ever seen.
The same show (Dr Phil) had a debate about sexual education in high school like a week later. What the fuck is wrong people? |
1. The vaccine is a vaccine against a venereal disease. I don't need to give my under 10 years of age daughter a vaccine against venereal disease. It's a vaccine against Human Papillomavirus. Not a guaranteed vaccine against cancer.
2. The vaccine is so new and unproven that they are still being surprised by the side effects. I prefer not to let my kids be the "early adopters" who suffer through the whole "oops" period.
Think back to 1976, when Gerald Ford made swine flu vaccinations mandatory. No swine flu pandemic broke out, but people were given Guillain-Barré syndrome by the vaccinations themselves. The vaccine was unnecessary and left people worse off than they were before they took the vaccine.
So I guess I've got a "case of idiotic conservatism" in your words. |
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sidelvar
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Angertank wrote: |
1. The vaccine is a vaccine against a venereal disease. I don't need to give my under 10 years of age daughter a vaccine against venereal disease. It's a vaccine against Human Papillomavirus. Not a guaranteed vaccine against cancer.
2. The vaccine is so new and unproven that they are still being surprised by the side effects. I prefer not to let my kids be the "early adopters" who suffer through the whole "oops" period.
So I guess I've got a "case of idiotic conservatism" in your words. |
I'm fine with your under 10 year old daughter but what about when she is 12 or 13?
I started fooling around with my girl while we were 16 we broke up, one of us picked up HPV because about 6 month after we got back together her pap came back with some good ol HPV. Just a thought.
Also the reason why I'm for the pre-10 years old thing is if your a single father (or mother) the conversation of "Lets get you vaccinated for a possible STD that your more than likely to get"
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ThisIsWhatWeDo
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| MattCrunk wrote: |
Where the fuck do blacks get off claiming a noose as a racist symbol? People of every race under the sun have been lynched and hanged. Blacks hardly have a exclusive an that.
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Probably because in America the hanging of blacks was common practice even up on into the 40s and 50s in parts of the country. No other race of people here was persecuted in that way in such recent history. 50 years ago isn't that long ago still.
And personally, if I think about 'what if' I was living in Africa somewhere and white people were a minority/were used as slaves for a few hundred years/ and were noosed regularly up until the 1940's I'd probably feel unease at the sight of a noose myself.
They're not being overly sensitive to fear that image. When you take your own guard down and consider the other side... i'm sure there are plenty of black people around today who had grandparents, or great grandparents who were hung, or had any other number of injustices "tied around their neck" so to speak----especially if you live down South.
Just my thoughts..not saying i'm 100% right, but to me personally i associate nooses first and foremost with the hanging of blacks. Because that was the most common occurance in recent history here where I live, in America.
Edit: I also think you're unfairly putting words in people's mouths by saying "blacks claim the noose as a racist symbol." |
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dan_T_jones
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| Angertank wrote: |
1. The vaccine is a vaccine against a venereal disease. I don't need to give my under 10 years of age daughter a vaccine against venereal disease. It's a vaccine against Human Papillomavirus. Not a guaranteed vaccine against cancer.
2. The vaccine is so new and unproven that they are still being surprised by the side effects. I prefer not to let my kids be the "early adopters" who suffer through the whole "oops" period.
Think back to 1976, when Gerald Ford made swine flu vaccinations mandatory. No swine flu pandemic broke out, but people were given Guillain-Barré syndrome by the vaccinations themselves. The vaccine was unnecessary and left people worse off than they were before they took the vaccine.
So I guess I've got a "case of idiotic conservatism" in your words. |
I know what the vaccine does. And what it does is effectively wipe out cervical cancer. That's proven. I agree that your daughter would more than likely not be at risk of HPV, however there are antibody advantages at getting the vaccine while young. Ideally you're looking 11 to 12 though.
And they don't tend to just "rush out" vaccinations without testing them. A whole circus load of shit goes into making sure the vaccine is safe.
Overall though the issue of the show was the morality of it, not the science, which pissed me off. Christian morality has a no place in science. |
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ThisIsWhatWeDo
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Angertank wrote: |
Think back to 1976, when Gerald Ford made swine flu vaccinations mandatory. No swine flu pandemic broke out, but people were given Guillain-Barré syndrome by the vaccinations themselves. The vaccine was unnecessary and left people worse off than they were before they took the vaccine.
So I guess I've got a "case of idiotic conservatism" in your words. |
I know someone who got that, in the 70's he took the swine flu vaccine and was paralyzed. He's in a wheelchair to this day.
Fuck most vaccines, especially fad ones. |
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dan_T_jones
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| ThisIsWhatWeDo wrote: | | Angertank wrote: |
Think back to 1976, when Gerald Ford made swine flu vaccinations mandatory. No swine flu pandemic broke out, but people were given Guillain-Barré syndrome by the vaccinations themselves. The vaccine was unnecessary and left people worse off than they were before they took the vaccine.
So I guess I've got a "case of idiotic conservatism" in your words. |
I know someone who got that, in the 70's he took the swine flu vaccine and was paralyzed. He's in a wheelchair to this day.
Fuck most vaccines, especially fad ones. |
I'm only a fan of vaccinations for disease that could kill or seriously incapacitate. The amount people rely on pharmaceuticals these days really alarms me. |
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sidelvar
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Lol, my girls little sister immediatly got the vaccine when it came out... Their parents are bother pastors/ministers and I grew up in the faith. What does christian beliefs have against the vaccine other than "kids shouldn't be having sex anyways"
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ThisIsWhatWeDo
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:41 am Post subject: |
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^^We are in the same boat then buddy.
Modern medicine has gotten out of control. It's no longer really about medicine as it is about A) big business and B) the race to who can come up with the next flying bullshit that someone can sell. |
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dan_T_jones
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| ThisIsWhatWeDo wrote: | | MattCrunk wrote: |
Where the fuck do blacks get off claiming a noose as a racist symbol? People of every race under the sun have been lynched and hanged. Blacks hardly have a exclusive an that.
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Probably because in America the hanging of blacks was common practice even up on into the 40s and 50s in parts of the country. No other race of people here was persecuted in that way in such recent history. 50 years ago isn't that long ago still.
And personally, if I think about 'what if' I was living in Africa somewhere and white people were a minority/were used as slaves for a few hundred years/ and were noosed regularly up until the 1940's I'd probably feel unease at the sight of a noose myself.
They're not being overly sensitive to fear that image. When you take your own guard down and consider the other side... i'm sure there are plenty of black people around today who had grandparents, or great grandparents who were hung, or had any other number of injustices "tied around their neck" so to speak----especially if you live down South.
Just my thoughts..not saying i'm 100% right, but to me personally i associate nooses first and foremost with the hanging of blacks. Because that was the most common occurance in recent history here where I live, in America.
Edit: I also think you're unfairly putting words in people's mouths by saying "blacks claim the noose as a racist symbol." |
So if every generation is offended by the symbol how do we, as a society, overcome it? We never would, even long after the incidents have transpired.
I still think people aren't genuinely offended, merely self-righteous and indignant about the idea of offense. A good example would be the word "N-I-G-G-E-R". I'm not allowed to type it in case it offends someone but I guarantee to you I could easily find 5 songs that receive regular radio play with the word in it. Clearly the word is not offensive, but the idea that it may gets self-righteous people all tied up. |
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sidelvar
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
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ageed dan, there was a discussion some time ago in which reverse rascism was the subject. it was in the "anything but" section and is worth the read.
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dan_T_jones
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| sidelvar wrote: | | Lol, my girls little sister immediatly got the vaccine when it came out... Their parents are bother pastors/ministers and I grew up in the faith. What does christian beliefs have against the vaccine other than "kids shouldn't be having sex anyways" |
Well that's a breath of fresh air. I'd expect something like "you're not getting that devil vaccine!" lol. What I meant was that morals should play a limited role in science, where rationality reigns supreme. |
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dan_T_jones
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| sidelvar wrote: | | ageed dan, there was a discussion some time ago in which reverse rascism was the subject. it was in the "anything but" section and is worth the read. |
Yeah I might. I was feeling like I hijacked the thread, as lame as its origins may have been. Reverse racism is one of the things I fucking hate most about society.
| ThisIsWhatWeDo wrote: | | It's no longer really about medicine as it is about A) big business and B) the race to who can come up with the next flying bullshit that someone can sell. |
I'm not such a conspiracy theorist to suggest pharmaceutical companies would manufacture diseases for profit but I'm certainly wary about how they manipulate the press for their benefit. Swine Flu certainly came at fortunate time for those medical companies with declining stock values. The incident was certainly blown out of proportion. |
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ThisIsWhatWeDo
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| dan_T_jones wrote: | | ThisIsWhatWeDo wrote: | | MattCrunk wrote: |
Where the fuck do blacks get off claiming a noose as a racist symbol? People of every race under the sun have been lynched and hanged. Blacks hardly have a exclusive an that.
|
Probably because in America the hanging of blacks was common practice even up on into the 40s and 50s in parts of the country. No other race of people here was persecuted in that way in such recent history. 50 years ago isn't that long ago still.
And personally, if I think about 'what if' I was living in Africa somewhere and white people were a minority/were used as slaves for a few hundred years/ and were noosed regularly up until the 1940's I'd probably feel unease at the sight of a noose myself.
They're not being overly sensitive to fear that image. When you take your own guard down and consider the other side... i'm sure there are plenty of black people around today who had grandparents, or great grandparents who were hung, or had any other number of injustices "tied around their neck" so to speak----especially if you live down South.
Just my thoughts..not saying i'm 100% right, but to me personally i associate nooses first and foremost with the hanging of blacks. Because that was the most common occurance in recent history here where I live, in America.
Edit: I also think you're unfairly putting words in people's mouths by saying "blacks claim the noose as a racist symbol." |
So if every generation is offended by the symbol how do we, as a society, overcome it? We never would, even long after the incidents have transpired.
I still think people aren't genuinely offended, merely self-righteous and indignant about the idea of offense. A good example would be the word "N-I-G-G-E-R". I'm not allowed to type it in case it offends someone but I guarantee to you I could easily find 5 songs that receive regular radio play with the word in it. Clearly the word is not offensive, but the idea that it may gets self-righteous people all tied up. |
We'd have to stop being racist, in order to then overcome any symbolism therein. I think we're getting there---but it's a long process you can't just up and say 'this symbol shouldn't be found offensive or racist anymore because blah blah!' It is what it is.
I've got nothing to say about the N word that would please you---I find that word offensive myself. What it meant then, what it means now. Just a nasty, nasty word. |
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