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tencents71
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 Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:29 pm Post subject: Is this far fetched? Please help! |
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I'm 33 years old and looking for a career change, into tattoo art. I have a background varied in industrial/graphic/and comic book design and have finally decided to use these abilities to make my living. I have no doubts in my abilities to work with my hands in any medium (the one thing I'm really good at). My goals are to eventually have my own shop, but a full time apprenticeship is out of the question for various reasons such as, my mortgage, my wife, etc.. Also, even if I could get an apprenticeship at the one and only tattoo shop in town, it's possible they may not allow me to open a shop here in town as soon as I would need to in order to make a living. I have to get my training in a reasonably quick fashion, but realize that the training I need is quite extensive.
I've looked into a couple of tattoo 'schools' if you will, and wonder what you pro's think of the idea. There are two that I've found, without mentioning their names, one is in Washington, and another in Florida. Each offer 2-3 week training, 8 hours a day, and go through what appears to be a fairly extensive program. They offer hands-on training from setting up a business, equipment maintenance, sanitation, tattooing, etc..
So I guess the question is....can this work? I am currently self-employed, consider myself a pretty sharp person and have the skills to be good at this. I also have friends that trust me whom I'm sure would love to receive free tattoos while I'm gaining experience before opening a shop. Can this work, or am I pissing in the wind?
Some qualified, honest answers would be GREATLY appreciated!
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Tattude
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Is this far fetched? Please help! |
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| tencents71 wrote: | I also have friends that trust me whom I'm sure would love to receive free tattoos while I'm gaining experience before opening a shop. Can this work, or am I pissing in the wind?
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You NEED those type of friends...I used to be one while a couple of my friends learned the trade.
An 8 week course would be a nice start but IMO not nearly enough to open your own shop or go out on your own. You’re going to run into several people wanted different types of tattoos and things come up. Having a mentor to turn too right then and there is a MUST for a tattoo artist to become GREAT. I know down here (Florida) some shops offer part time apprenticeships for people in your situation. You can work with a mentor 3-4 days a week while still holding down your job. I would look into this as an option. Working 7 days a week is going to be hard but worth it if you can have this as an option.
Good luck
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BadWolf
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 5:03 am Post subject: |
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LOL....You say you have a mortgage and a wife...and that's why you can't get a real apprenticeship. Yet you want to rush through some bullshit "tattoo school" and open your own shop and quit working?
Let me tell ya what...As good as you will be trained, and as much respect as you will be worthy of after such a venture, you won't have to worry about that mortgage or wife for long. They won't be there. You won't make enough to support either one. |
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CxCx
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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My apprenticeship is part time. I work 30 hours a week unloading a truck at a local warehouse, and spend my off time in my mentor's studio. I do it 5 days a week, some days doing a 4 hour "shift", others 8 hours (depending on how my other shedule looks). My mentor was cool with this, but he informed me upfront that doing my apprenticeship this way will make the process a longer one (which is obvious). If you can find a mentor that's willing to let you apprentice part-time and you don't mind spending more time in the apprenticeship program, then go for it.
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indagadadaveeta
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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you should have a job thats very part time,and tryn to do the apperntership as much as possible.you will go broke,so i hope you like cup of noodle.the life style tattoo artist live is not like you think.tits in your face,good money and good lookin chicks.thats a bullshit life style some people think we live.you truely have to love createing art,not just tattoos.
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tencents71
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject: BadWolf |
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| BadWolf wrote: | LOL....You say you have a mortgage and a wife...and that's why you can't get a real apprenticeship. Yet you want to rush through some bullshit "tattoo school" and open your own shop and quit working?
Let me tell ya what...As good as you will be trained, and as much respect as you will be worthy of after such a venture, you won't have to worry about that mortgage or wife for long. They won't be there. You won't make enough to support either one. |
Apparently my question wasn't clear enough, because you didn't understand a thing I said. Doesn't matter though, you're a snob. Some advice, if you're going to reply to a question, make sure you understand WHAT IS BEING ASKED. |
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BadWolf
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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I got it, Sport. You are someone looking to jump on the bandwagon, but can't do it right because of prior obligations. We have heard this all before a million times. In your case you site a mortgage and wife. Most idiots claim it's kids. You want to open a shop after a 2 week "tattoo school" rip-off scam. You want to know if that is going to work.
The answer is, no...and if you attempt it, you will lose the wife and mortgage, anyhow, because you will not be prepared to be a tattoo studio owner, or a tattooist, and will not have the funds coming in to support them. So, why allow them to be a concern, now? They won't exist in a short time, anyway.
Get it now, Skippy?
It was a very thorough answer to your question.
As for the schools, there are those who can, and those who teach. If these people had the faintest clue how to run a successful tattoo business, why do you think they would pass up making hundreds of dollars an hour to teach you??
There are other bandwagons to jump on. I am sure your town can support one more "custom motorcycle "FABRICATOR" or something equally as cool. Those guys get invited to parties all the time, too. And when the trend wears off, all you have to do is clean out your garage, and go back to whatever you did before, until the next pop culture trend tickles your fancy. |
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tencents71
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:13 am Post subject: BadWolf |
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| Badwolf dude, thanks for trying to give me your honest advice, but bro you aren't getting what I said or maybe I wasn't clear enough. I didn't say I wanted to attend a school and open a shop in 2 weeks. I said opening a shop would be the EVENTUAL GOAL. But, the main idea you aren't getting is this - I wasn't making a STATEMENT. I was ASKING A QUESTION. I didn't say this was what I was signed up for, the question was essentially, could a school like this help jumpstart a career. I'm DON"T know if the school route can help me or not, THAT IS THE REASON I WAS ASKING. If I'd already decided to do it, I WOULDN'T HAVE ASKED. Ever hear the phrase "the only stupid questions are the ones never asked"? I was looking for opinions on these schools, if they're worth it or not. I realize that I won't be prepared to open a shop in 2 weeks, but my thought was that IF the schools could get me through the basics, I could practice on my own, and later do free tattoo's on friends, and their friends until I was ready. I don't know how long that might be, but I could keep working until that time came which would allow me to pay the bills in the mean time. Also, I'm not trying to jump on any bandwagon. At the beginning of my post I told you that my background and training was in art. I went to the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena for Transportation Design. After college I got into Comic book design, doing covers and various page layouts for independent comic books. I'm quite certain that my training and talents in the field at least equal, if not exceed your own, or just about anyone else on this website. I would like to get into this because tattooing is a medium that has always suited my talents, and is something I would love to do. I own my own business now, in a field I can't stand. I'm 33 'skippy', not 18 and not looking for "something cool". I'm looking to get into a field I will enjoy and be good at. I have tattoo's, love my tattoo's, and have always known I could be good at it. I'm not interested in getting into it for the chicks, or lifestyle. I happen to have an awesome wife (who's a hottie herself) and a lifestyle that I enjoy. What I AM interested in is doing something I love for a living. BTW, I read the discussion about the whole wax on'wax off deal - BULLSHIT! Sorry, but mopping floors and shoveling your drive sounds an awful lot like.....slave labor. Taking advantage of young men and women may be accepted in your world, but let's be honest, that's EXACTLY what you're doing. Does a college force it's students to paint the building for 2 years before it begins to educate them? No. Then, you try to justify your slave labor tactics by saying "what the student get's in return is worth far more". That may be completely 100% true, or maybe not as you also know that it delays the progress of your students learning and delays their careers. So, WHAT COULD THAT STUDENT HAVE EARNED in the first year or two that you are wasting for him/her? $25, 50, 75 grand? Does that cost still outway the skills you eventually teach them? Fifty grand will buy him a nice bachelors degree in MANY fields that the student can use to make a nice living with. You can try to justify it anyway you want, but I think you know damn good and well that what YOU are most interested in is free labor to benefit yourself, for as long as you can drag it out. I see the benefits of having a mentor - surely the best way to go for the young guy with no bills, but as I said in my previous post I CANNOT change my entire life for it, whether you think I should or not. I'm not willing to give up my wife, or my house just to conform to your way of doing things. There's always another way, and if I can find a side door or a back door, that might be the way I have to go. Funny to me that a self-proclaimed rebel type like yourself is so inside the box, doesn't really fit your job title does it? |
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BadWolf
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Mopping my floors is not an exercise in slavery. It is an exercise in learning to do it every day of your apprenticeship so it becomes a habit. JANITOR will be part of your job title as "tattooist" for the rest of your fucking life, buddy boy, so you had better get used to it. People die from attitudes like yours. If you don't even grasp that, you are wrong...you would NOT be good for the industry. You would be the type of person that is the PROBLEM.
I got your question and answered it. NO...it isn't going to work. I'll repeat it...NO...What you propose will NOT work.
What would you get in the 2 years you would be "wasting" in an apprenticeship????
THE INFORMATION THAT YOU WILL NEVER GET IN THAT TWO WEEK RIP OFF SCAM BY PEOPLE THAT KNOW JUST ABOUT AS MUCH ABOUT TATTOOING AS YOU DO.
That's what....that, and respect. Something no one from that school has or will ever encounter.
As for your false notion we like to get free labor from apprentices for as long as we can....I want the person to make me money, and they wouldn't be doing that by being my slave, so your whole idea is completely flawed from the start. I don't make a cent teaching them to tattoo....I make money from them DOING tattoos AFTER their apprenticeship, moron. An apprentice is a waste of my space, and someone I have an obligation to outside of that...the help around the studio I get in exchange is barely worth the effort, Prima Donna.
To put it bluntly, The apprenticeship would allow me to see if the person had what it takes....and I already got a handle on you just from our exchange, here. Unless your attitude changes drastically, YOU DON'T have what it takes. Sorry. The industry needs people looking to give something to IT. Not yet another idiot to suck it dry.
Your idea of taking a shortcut is to practice on friends. It will take you years to get it right that way,(if you are lucky) and then years after that to fix all the shitty work you did while you were learning. An apprentice will have avoided those mistakes and the negative reputation YOU will spend your entire career trying to hide from.
I don't pretend to think anything I just said would make a lick of sense to you, so I am simply putting it out there for others who may be able to see the reality of the situation. |
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Slinger520
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Hello, I am very new to this site but I have exstensivly read many threads containing replies from BadWolf. I have to say that he is one of the most competent people on this site. His beliefs that the industry is being saturated couldn't be more accurate and that the only way to learn is the to study the correct way from the very beginning. I must say that it is very hard to find an apprenticeship, and that is the way it should be. The so called "slave" labor is necessary to weed out the wannabees and train the potential ARTISTS to become great all-around tattoo artists. My mentor, Dennis Dwyer, who learned from the legendary Brooklyn Blackie and later worked for Cliff Raven, states that a succeful tattoo artist must be more than just an artist. You must be a janitor, a mechanic, a salesman, a friend, a bouncer, and numorous other things; not just an artist. And a mentor isn't going to give you trade secrets until you can prove that you are worthy of them by accomplishing some of the other things listed above. So BadWolf, keep on keepin on; I believe your advice is grand! |
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BadWolf
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks! I will indeed keep keeping on! Are you still in contact with Dennis? I met him a few times, and haven't really heard much about him in a long time. |
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Slinger520
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes sir, he just left the studio about 5 minutes ago. He is a bit slower than in his good ole' days but he's still truckin. He mostly concentrates on permanent cosmetics and leaves the traditional stuff to his artists, which is great for us. I belive your enforcement of the need for proper health training is the best advise you give on here. I also work for the APT and believe that is by far the first thing anybody should learn. All of you beginners out there should take an industry specific bloodborne pathogen training course before even trying to tattoo. That would be the best thing to have on your side when seeking an apprenticeship. |
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BadWolf
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Back in my humble beginings, when I was going to every convention I could get to, I used to hang out with a guy named Herb. I won't drop his last name on an open forum, but he was an older Jewish gentleman most people knew. He used to introduce me to people I had questions for. That was a LOOOOOOOONG time ago, and I doubt Dennis would remember me from a few "Hi, Howya doin'?" 's, but if you ask him about Herb, I would bet he know who you are talking about.
As for your advise, I agree 100%. Learning proper aseptic procedure is absolutely ESSENTIAL before even thinking about picking up a machine. That in itself can take people more than 2 weeks to absorb, if they have no idea of the industry. I don't know how a "tattoo school" can teach that, as well as needle making, machine building, ink mixing, lining, shading and coloring techniques, etc, etc, etc, in TWO WEEKS! |
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Slinger520
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The so called "tattoo school" is a JOKE! I believe there is only two schoold in the USA and both are run by the same dude. He charges like $5600 dollars for a two week course. I personally wouldn't hire anybody with a "tattoo school" on their resume'. They absolutely saturate the industry and only give false hope to those who think they can become true tattoo artists, while making themselves broke. As the great Gill Montie once said "Tattoo artists are the only people rock stars look up to!"---But not if everybody is one! |
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tencents71
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, thanks from those of you that had well mannered replys. I never meant to find an argument, just some advice. Badwolf, if you can't give someone constructive advice without being a prick, don't give it at all. If you DO act like a prick, you better expect that the person you're talking to is going to be a prick back. Who the hell do you think you are? Being an ass will not help you, your business, or this thread. In fact, every thread that I've seen fail is because of guys like you. You inspire others to be assholes like yourself, then eventually nothing constructive is ever said, and people stop showing up. All I asked was a goddamn question, and I got your shitty attitude and threats from it - what a waste of time. Oh, and bye the way, go F yourself. |
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