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hurt228
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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 Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:33 pm Post subject: paying for apprentanceship |
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what are your guys veiws on paying someone to apprentance me
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BadWolf
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:32 am Post subject: |
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You would expect to pay for college if you wanted to fix air conditioners, right? Well, a decent tattoo artist can make a lot more money that an air conditioner repairman. I would be careful that the person is qualified to apprentice you. If so, and you want to make the investment, there is no problem.
Most people don't charge you, but require you work in the studio doing all the cleaning, needle making, scrubbing tubes and soforth. This causes you to pick up good habits...if you can't keep a toilet clean, how could you be expected to keep a studio safe and clean? If it were me, I would do it that way, and have you sign a non-disclosure/non-competition form, as well as a contract that had you working for me for a period of time after the apprenticeship (at my discretion). That way, I would not be training you to open a studio next to me and write a book about all the info I gave you.
I feel if they charge you for the apprenticeship, it's a done deal, and you owe them nothing when the apprenticeship is complete...other than normal respect. |
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ASHLEY
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:51 am Post subject: BUT WHAT IS TO MUCH |
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I WAS OFFERED A APPRENTISHIP FOR 4000 IS THIS TO MUCH TO PAY? 
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Tattoo Info
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:23 am Post subject: |
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An apprenticeship costs different amount depending on where you do it. Sometimes it’ll cost $2,000-$5000, and sometimes it’ll be free, with a contract stating you need to continue working for that shop for x amount of years after completing your apprenticeship.
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A
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | a decent tattoo artist can make a lot more money that an air conditioner repairman |
sorry wolf, but i will have to disagree on that statement completely.....and also....
i never like to hear statements like this........it creates alot of falsehoods and misconceptions that have led alot of people to believe they can get rich tattooing.............(its one of the biggest reasons why it is so saturated today)
let me just say this.......i know a few "good" air conditioning men, and their annual income FAR exceeds most tattooers out there.....without a doubt.
my two cents on the 4K apprenticeship is this............check them out thoroughly.....alot of people out there these days charging high for an apprenticeship......and really not teaching anyone a thing..........
and for 4K, it should be a well known and reputable artist with credentuals to prove themselves worthy of such a task...........dont waste your 4K, and get nothing for it.
like wolf said.........most outstanding and reputable artist wont charge a dime......its more of a trust and feeling and/or knowledge of your level of art skills and love of this artform that they will rely on..........
and also......any reputable artist will apprentice VERY few (if more than one) in their lifetime.......and thats why they MAKE SURE the one they choose is THE right one.............
so beware, if this person has apprenticed "alot" of people.........it tells you that they just want the money............and if thats the case........it isnt worth 4K. |
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tat2tx
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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i was one of those fortunate artist that had a friend that saw a sparkle of talent he felt he could ignite a so the candle was lit almost 10 years ago.
i spent 2 years hanging out drawing,sweeping,cleaning that spot in the corner's of the room were gunk would want to collect, but most importantly Watching every thing my mentor did. so i cleaned and watch even got to ask ?'s after about 6 months of this came the sterile training
it was funny some of the guy's @ the shop my mentor worked at called him the sterile nazi.. in all fairness i understand why. it was even funnier that i as an apprentice had a better knowledge of setting up a modern clean work area and tool's that many tattooist i had seen @ con. shop's and what not. after a year or so i began tattooing my friend's but only the close ones so i could watch-em heal i progessed fairly well i felt but i spent the beeter part of 9 months doing my aperentestship tattoo's mainly the lil butterflies ,names ,and smaller designs.One day my Mentor showed up @ the shop told me my services as an aprentice were no longer needed {my heart hit the floor so hard i can still feel the thump} but he did have a opening for an artist  i worked along side my friend for 3 yrs. plus the shop we worked for had 2 locations so i traveled between them both so i got to watch a good veriety of artist and learn new things from them all.
ohh yea Mentor for hire ummm i dont think i could have ever spent enuff $$$$$$$ even like bill gates $$$ could'nt have paid for what i was given.
i have not alway's made alot of $$$ tattooing shit i was flat broke a few time's.the reward at the end is always the same for me did i have a good time ? was i happy? hell yea i was am and will always be because i place a piece of my self on every person i am placing a piece of art on i have tattooed thousands of people by now and i am no were near done yet ( i hope) and the self gratifacation at the end of a tattoo is worth every cent
of that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
I know i personly would never charge a person to share what knowledge, tricks, and information i have gained in this adventure of Tattoing becuase im not sure how to price something that is such a part of me.
but i sure do give it away to people in my proffesion that are honestly thirsty for the knowledge that will help them progress on thier own mission in tattoos.
Dr's go to school for years spends well over $30,000 to get the training and working conditions. i did'nt spend a dime exept buying my tools
money is just that $ money.knowledge is priceless..........
make sure your buying good knowledge...................
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Damoz
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:50 pm Post subject: Pay for Apprenticeships |
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Paying for apprenticeships i think is rediculous, I get paid to do mine therefore i am classed as an asset.
Australia is great 
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BadWolf
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| A wrote: | | Quote: | | a decent tattoo artist can make a lot more money that an air conditioner repairman |
sorry wolf, but i will have to disagree on that statement completely.....and also....
i never like to hear statements like this........it creates alot of falsehoods and misconceptions that have led alot of people to believe they can get rich tattooing.............(its one of the biggest reasons why it is so saturated today) |
I merely said they CAN. Talent, location, integrity, commitment, etc. has a lot to do with it, too.
When you charge over $100 an hour and are open 12 hours a day, hustle, and travel the circuits, and are decent at it, that CAN be a lot of money.
When you have paid your dues, and gain the respect that comes with it, how much you choose to make is up to you, to a great extent.
My point was that even if you have to pay for an apprenticeship, if the person is a worthwhile teacher, he will be giving you the technical skills you need, and it will make your career far easier in the longrun...As opposed to going the alternative route and ending up working out of your trailer for 6 paks for the rest of your life, as at least 98% of the scratchers will. Even with the proper training (or if you are one of the 2% who are self taught and make it), you have to supply the ambition, and if you have enough, there are no real limits.
If you are ambitious, and find a good mentor, a $4000 investment is nothing, for the possibilities that are out there.
This, of course will apply to any business where one is mainly his own boss, and can set his own hours, as long as they choose wisely.
I agree that one has to be careful of the motives of the mentor, and advised so.
But even a free apprenticeship may only be saving the guy from mopping his own floors. The guy down the street might even pay someone to be there...but they won't learn a damn thing, except that he is an incompetent ass.
Some people charge for an apprenticeship because they realize the value of the knowledge they will be giving the student, and the doors they will be opening.
Free isn't always better, and paying isn't always bad, was my point. |
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CxCx
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: I agree 100% |
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this is a subject that's close to my situation at the moment. I've been apprenticing now since december, and I was lucky enough not to have to pay for it. When I first asked my mentor about an apprenticeship, i assumed I'd have to pay, and it's completely understandable. To me, it seems like it's a test. If you're not serious enough to put out some money to tattoo, maybe you should find a new profession. For my situation, I had to sign a contract saying that i will work for 3 years to pay off my apprenticeship (so to speak) and I'm forbidden from opening a shop within 50 miles while my mentor has a shop open in his current spot. All of this is completely reasonable and, from what i understand, standard fare. Like i said, it's just another way to determine how serious a would-be artist really is. BTW, this is my first post here, and just wanted to say 'ey" to everyone. Just doing my best not to offend anyone right off the bat
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BadWolf
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:11 am Post subject: |
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indagadadaveeta
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:47 am Post subject: |
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i agree with b.w you got to make sure the persons worth teaching and being taught from.don't go to some sh*tty place cause its easy &cheaper to get an apprentership.
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Tattude
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Never pay for an apprenticeship... Especially not that much.
Tattoo artists can make serious money where an A/C repair man can not. Just had to through that out there.
A/C repair man can make anywhere from 25K - 45K here in Florida.
Reputable tattoo artist make far more then this.
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BluOwle
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: apprenticeship theory |
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Hello, All. This is my 1st post/reply and this is the very topic I signed into this site to discuss, well that & some ink issues/questions I have. I am from Indiana & as far as I can tell this is the state with the least/no tattoo laws, over site, etc. beyond passing the marks with the county Health Dept. so getting started here in the industry is very simple for anyone who wants to. How well one does depends on talent & business skills mostly. Short point is any of us Hoosier 'scratchers' can get out on our own if the capital is available. I have many people who call me a tattoo artist, but I know my "official"place in the biz. I AM an Artist in many mediums; in the tattoo medium I differentiate between tattooists & tattoo Artists on a number of levels, but that is a a different discussion.
Given the lack of viable available accreditation in this state there is little point in me pursuing an apprenticeship for many reasons & a few good ones for me to do so. As yet I am still just scratching it out when, where, & how I can. I know that makes many people cringe but it is the way of things as often as not. I have checked into it with a number of Artists & shops & no one as yet is interested in taking ANYONE on, regardless of potential or Art skill. The one long time Artist that was willing turned out to be a sad disappointment to anyone with 1/2 a brain. His claim is having owned his own parlor for over 20 yrs, & the quality of his work IS top shelf, BUT his life situation is such that he must be avoided. He is HEP C positive(which in & of itself isn't a real big deal...) but I caught him on multiple occasions laying ink in VERY unclean ways (ungloved with open sores on his hands) so I quickly quit associating with him all together. Short point there, just cause a person HAS the knowledge & experience doesn't mean shit, especially when they are spreading disease because their mind is so far gone. There are many people who have been scratching for years or even decades that should not be allowed near any equipment & rookies that should have their own shops.
EVERYONE CAN AGREE THAT CLEANLINESS IS THE NUMBER ONE CONCERN, more-so even than good Art. Tattooing has not always been sterile, think of the scene in Pirates of the Caribbean where they are bellow decks hand sticking a back piece, jail/prison work, or some ritual ink ceremonies in 3rd world countries, none of this is like a contemporary parlor, but it is still ALL tattoo. A beautiful tattoo can get one killed, while a shit one can usually be covered up or fixed if nothing else.
A 'professional' (in any field) is a person getting paid to apply their trade or craft, PERIOD! There are many more tattoo enthusiasts in this world that can't than those who can afford the cost of parlor work just because of economics. Should they be excluded from the world of ink culture (it is like a religion to MANY of us!) just because they are poor? I say not, that just goes against more than a few founding principles.
Stories of years of experience are easily crafted & not easily verified. I know first hand, the guy who did my armpit tat (which I was unhappy with & had reworked) claimed 20 yrs experience, & he did have that if one includes 15 yrs of fucking around with homemade machines at kegers, etc. I gave my 1st tat to a buddy when I was 15 in trade for some weed, but does that really count? Not to me, but it does to him so it is all a matter of opinion.
I've had a number of pieces done in a parlor (I got my 1st "real" tattoo in a parlor @ Sturgis '98 by an 8 yr 'scratcher' just turning 'apprentice') as well as at home & at tattoo parties. For myself, I have (& will continue to do so) learned almost as much just from getting tattoos as well as giving them. I am very very serious about my tattooing. I stayed away from giving tattoos for a very long time until I felt my Art skills were up to par despite people begging me for them. I am always, always will be, looking to improve techniques as well as my processes. To date EVERY person I have worked on (that had previous work) has said I am by far the cleanest tattooing Artist they've had. That means more to me than commenting on & complementing the work itself. As for the quality of my work; {everyone has & is entitled to their own opinions) it is often mistook for the work of other Artists working out of local parlors by the majority who see it. There are a few people who are beginning to i.d. my work as mine as my style is becoming more refined & distinctly my own.
In the end I would love to study WITH a known Artist(S) but that just isn't likely or feasible for the vast majority of us who truly LOVE tattoo but have to learn through self teaching & raw experience, nor should we be put down or scorned for lack of a suitable teacher/mentor. There are many 'levels' at which tattoo is practiced & just because one has decades of parlor experience doesn't make them a be-all/end-all authority in the profession. TRUTH be told the vast majority of tattoo Artists likely started out scratching. I have no interest in being a machine builder. If my shit breaks I know enough to fix it w/replacement parts or I'll buy another one. Nor do I have the interest (or fine dexterity in the fingers) to build needles. Me not making needles & machines secures jobs for the persons who do enjoy that work. One doesn't have to be an automotive engineer to be a mechanic or an architect to be a carpenter.
I would like to share a tidbit & ask for feedback on this as well; I found a tattoo school in Denver via an online link. Their cost was 2000$ for a 1 yr class (and the students make very very little off their work) & one has to live in Denver for a year, which ain't cheap so there is much more than just 'tuition' costs involved. Studying under most Artists in a parlor is going to just get one involved with a bunch of petty drama as much as teach anyone anything. The odds of being able to stay with any one mentor/teacher for a few years on average has a low probability of success for just about anyone. Such a relationship IS ALL about trust (or maybe just capitalism depending) & should not be taken lightly on either end of it. There is way too much pride, vanity, arrogance, & jealousy in this industry that very often gets masked as 'professionalism' and that is just a crock of shit in my opinion. And that, my friends, is probably the main reason most people who want ink can't afford the high rates most parlors 'have to' charge. The materials costs in the average tattoo are just a few bucks ($5-10) in reality. Most parlors are giving 60-40 to 80-20 split to most of the Artists they have on board & there is NEVER a guarantee in much of it, not even that the same people will be there next time you go back so be even extra careful when you go in for session work as there is no way of ensuring the person who starts your work will be the one to finish it, same with any apprenticeship one may get into. Tattoo is much more about the Artists than it is the parlors themselves.
Last edited by BluOwle on Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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texasdandoy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| This is for you bluOwle. I would like to see some of your work. The whole scratcher subject has been done here quite a few times and usually end with the same result. I personally think that it comes down to everyones opinion on the matter. Some who are on one side some who are on the other. Im not going to post my opinion on it I would just like too see you upload some of your work on here and let people judge you based on that. You will have much better luck not getting eaten alive if your work is solid. Hope to see it. |
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dan_T_jones
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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First off: Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:33 pm Post subject: paying for apprentanceship
I've had girlfirends younger than this thread. I know you added something substantial to it but next time just start a new topic, no-one is going to hate you for it.
Secondly, unless your house has a room completely removed from the living space of the house, that is routinely sterilised, has sterilised barriers and biohazard disposal unit (for needles etc), and another seperate room with a constantly spore tested autoclave (for sterilising tools), then you are a hazard to the community. Simple as that.
Think what you will about what defines an artist,how good your work is and how pleased people are with it, government regulations, corruption in the industry etc etc, if you don't follow common health guidelines (despite what may be required in your state) you are a dangerous scratcher. So is anybody else. |
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