NEED SOME HELP

General tattoo discussion

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ASHLEY
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:32 pm
Location: ORLANDO

Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:04 pm

TO ALL THE TATTOO ARTIST IS 4000 TO MUCH TO PAY FOR AN APPRENTISHIP? THE ARTIST SAID IT COULD TAKE UP TO A YEAR,SUPPLY ALL EQUIPMENT AND WILL TEACH ME EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW. IS THIS A AVERAGE PRICE FOR THIS SERVICE? 8)
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BadWolf
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Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:11 pm

Depends who the artist is, what they know, and what equipment they intend to supply you with. If it's an untrained wannabe who opened a studio and doesn't know shit, themselves, then it isn't worth a dime. If it's a respected artist with credentials, and a great understanding of all the different aspects you would need to know, then it's maybe worth it, if you want to learn. I can make $4000 in a week and a half doing tattoos, if I really want to be that busy. But if it isn't a reputable artist who is CAPABLE of training you properly, then you may never make $4000 in your lifetime.

My concern is that he says it will take up to a year. It should take longer.

I would teach:

Aseptic procedure and cross contamination control FIRST.

Then I would make you an EXPERT counter person.

Then I would make you an EXPERT cleaning person.

Then I would make you an EXPERT needle maker.

Etc. etc. etc.

Then I would make you a tattooist when I felt you were ready, a machine builder, etc. etc. which, depending on your ability to comprehend, may take a couple years.

If you ever forgot the part about cleaning, we would stop IMMEDIATELY and give you a refresher course...and if it took you 2 days to learn, cool....if it took you 7 years to learn, we would not proceed until you were an expert, again.

Putting a timeframe on it is unrealistic.

I may find you are wasting my time, and feel you would not be good for the industry if you couldn't learn how to clean, and get rid of you, but I would not set a time limit on making you a tattooist.
ASHLEY
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:32 pm
Location: ORLANDO

Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:27 pm

THE GUY SAID HE HAS BEEN A PRO FOR 6 YEARS, AND THE TIME DEPENDS ON ME. COULD IT BE THAT I HAVE BEEN TATTOOING FOR 5 YEARS, NOT IN A SHOP THATS :? WHY I WANT A APPRENTISHIP SO I CAN LEARN THE RIGHT WAY. YOU SOUND LIKE A GREAT TEACHER WHERE ARE YOU FROM?
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BadWolf
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Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:09 pm

**YOU SOUND LIKE A GREAT TEACHER WHERE ARE YOU FROM?**



Thank you. I am from PA.

Actually, some of the people I helped, took longer if they had been tattooing...because you weren't only learning, but trying to overcome any bad habits. There are a lot of people who have been tattooing for a long time who aren't qualified to teach anything. I have seen people invest a great deal of time and money, and the most they got out of it was info on where to buy better equipment. If you are looking for a serious apprenticeship, you should be just as interested in HIS credentials as he is in yours. Just make sure he knows what he is doing...cuz if he doesn't, he will simply teach you to not know what you are doing. If this was a free apprenticeship, all you would be wasting is time. Since it's for a fee, you would also be wasting money.

Part of the reason the business has been screwed up by untrained people is that as soon as they stumble through it long enough that they pull off a half decent tattoo, they suddenly are TRAINING people. There are a couple of shops close to me where the owners are, by far, some of the worst people I have ever seen, not only artistically, but they are filthy. And they are taking on apprentices! Why? Because it makes them feel they are important. They have someone who doesn't know better stroking their egos.

So, as I said...just be damn sure before the guy gets cent one, that he is not one of those people. It shouldn't take long to figure it out. If you have doubts, let me know, and I can give you my opinion.

I had a bunch of people talking shit about apprenticeships to me, and I wrote the following article, elsewhere. I'll post it here, so people can read it. It seemed to humble a few people and many professionals agreed with it completely. It helps explain why the process of "doing all the shitty work" is important, and why it needs to be part of your training.

Here goes:



Seems like no one wants to clean toilets, anymore. Or maybe they don’t quite understand why it has to be part of the learning process.



In my humble (or not) opinion, I don't care if you paid for an apprenticeship or not, or how much...the first thing you are going to learn, is how to clean a studio...top to bottom.

As a tattoo artist, you will have to do your part of it, EVERYDAY, or we have a serious problem. Do it enough, and it becomes a habit. Don’t do it enough and that will become a habit, too. And it is far more complex than what you do at home. Sweeping your porn mags and sex toys under the bed when you have company isn’t gonna cut it in a tattoo studio.

There are a lot of excuses as to why apprentices get this task...Paying dues, respect... Whatever. The bottom line is: It is all about acquiring good habits.



Different rooms and areas of the studio require being in different states of "clean", and learning the difference between those states takes time. "Clean" for a kitchen or waiting room is not the same as "clean" for a tattoo room.

No, it should not take 2 years to learn to clean a toilet, but if you cannot clean a toilet, (and everything else in the studio to the degree of "clean" necessary) and KEEP IT THAT WAY CONSISTENTLY, please go infect someone else's customers.



If you are too good to do it, please don't let the door hit you on the way out, Your Royal Highness! Everyone in the studio should work together as a unit to keep the place clean and the customers safe.



If it takes you 2 days to "get it" we can move along to step 2...if it takes you 75 years to "get it", so be it...but you WILL "get it" and "get it" THOROUGHLY before we move on to something else. And if you appear to forget step 1 anywhere along the way, rest assured! We will go back, and I will refresh your memory before proceeding. If your memory seems to fail you frequently, I will send you along your merry way, and I don't give a rat's ass how good you can draw or how talented you think you are.

We cannot bypass that most important of steps and expect anything except trouble.



"Janitor" is part of the job title, and will be throughout your entire career, like it or not.

I am about as laid back as you can be where most things are concerned, but not about that.

I still take my turn cleaning toilets...always will.



Anyone who wants you to do nothing but clean for 2 years is lazy and not a very good teacher. Anyone who doesn’t want to clean is a very unsafe "tattoo artist".

Prima donnas cause problems. If you have one "precious individual" who is above touching the toilet brush, no one will want to do it, and the studio will go to Hell real quick. There is no place in this business for such people. If you are one of these people, find some other pastime that does not require you to immerse yourself so thoroughly, or bog you down with details such as "cleanliness".



Most of the business is open to personal interpretation. If I disagree, I can discuss it, and possibly see it from your perspective. Hell, you may change my whole fuckin' outlook on how I view art...or feel about 7 magnums! But you aren’t in control of what constitutes "clean"... It is a ~rule~ where your personal view means absolutely nothing.

Your personal outlook on art may alter the reality of many, but your personal outlook on Hepatitis isn't going to keep people from dying from it. Scrubbing the place is not a torture devise you lay on new people...it is the most important thing to address the one actual ~rule~ in tattooing.



Since eventually the studio will be representing the apprentice just as much as they are representing the studio, they need to know what to do to maintain things, and whoever notices something needs taken care of should be proud to do it. Since someone who is learning will have more time to do these things, it is in their best interest to be on top of them. Why the Hell would you want to learn to tattoo in a studio everyone thinks is a shit hole? Anything you can do to improve the image will benefit you when you start driving needles in people.
ASHLEY
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:32 pm
Location: ORLANDO

Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:57 pm

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT POINT. I THINK AFTER READING THIS I WILL LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE TO GET A APPRENTISHIP, THE GUY DIDNT EVEN SAY ANYTHING ABOUT TEACHING ME ANYTHING ON THE LINES OF SANITATION. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE? ALSO DO YOU KNOW ANYONE DOWN HERE IN FLORIDA THAT ARE GOOD TEACHERS. THANX FOR YOUR HELP..........ASHLEY :D
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BadWolf
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Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:07 pm

Learning that stuff should be step number 1. You will be coming into contact with contaminated instruments, blood, etc. How could you be safe if you didn't know how to address these issues properly? When you start out in a studio, you will be doing everything from answering phones to cleaning up and sterilizing equipment...you may be asked by a busy tattooist to clean up his work area and set up for the next person while he takes a much deserved smoke break...you will basically be running the place while everyone else is busy tattooing. If someone would allow you to take on all that responsibility without teaching you how to deal with things in the proper manner, they are putting you in danger...so I have to question how they feel about ANYONE's safety.

When I go to work in Florida, I usually stay just outside Daytona. And the shops I have worked in or been in there SUCK. They were alright for me to use a space in for an event, if I cleaned the space, but they were dumps compared to what I am used to. I haven't gone in a couple of years, but I might next year for bikeweek. Outside of that area, I don't know anyone enough to say one way or another. If you were closer to PA, maybe I could help.
ASHLEY
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:32 pm
Location: ORLANDO

Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:36 pm

WHEN I GO UP NORTH IM EATHER IN NEW YORK OR IN INDIANA. SOMETIMES I STAY A MONTH OR TWO, BUT THATS ABOUT IT.EVEN SHOPS IN ORLANDO ARE SHITTY, THERES ONE DOWN THE STREET FROM ME AND I HAVE THERE CUSTOMERS ASKING ME TO FIX THEIR TATTS. THIS ONE GUY TOSSED THE ARTIST THROUGH A WINDOW! AND THEY DONT WHAT A FEMALE ARTIST! I SEEN THERE IS A TATTOO SCHOOL OPENING UP AROUND HERE, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS? DO YOU THINK GOING TO ONE OF THESE PLACES IS A WASTE OF TIME? I REALLY WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP MAN YOU ARE A "TATTOO GOD" :!: :P
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BadWolf
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:06 pm

ASHLEY wrote:THERE IS A TATTOO SCHOOL OPENING UP AROUND HERE, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS? DO YOU THINK GOING TO ONE OF THESE PLACES IS A WASTE OF TIME?


Most likely. Again, these are people who probably are capitalizing on the industry, and know little about it. Any professional tattooist knows there are too many lackluster people involved as it is...and that's what these places tend to put out. If there are no qualifications to get in (besides the money) why expect greatness from those coming out? The world could stand to have far less of the people that are coming out of places like that, or just learning on their own, and far more people who have been given a great deal of knowledge from a trained professional.


ASHLEY wrote: I REALLY WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP MAN YOU ARE A "TATTOO GOD" :!: :P


Well, thanks...but I am not a tattoo God. I simply try to persuade the tattoo Gods to use my hands and work through me. That's about the best we mere mortals can do. Hang in there, and it will happen.
ASHLEY
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:32 pm
Location: ORLANDO

Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:41 pm

IM TALKING TO THIS ARTIST NAMED KEVIN AT AFTERSHOCK TATTOO HERE IN ORLANDO PLEASE DONT SAY THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE DUMPS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT......................... :?:
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BadWolf
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Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:25 pm

Nope...haven't been there, or heard of them.
ASHLEY
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:32 pm
Location: ORLANDO

Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:59 pm

good i think this guy is a good teacher. i told him about the other shop and he said he knows the guy and that hes a ass for not even saying any thing about needle making or cleaning. thanks for your help and thank the tattoo gods for me! :D :) :twisted:
ladyothecanvas
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Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:45 pm

sounds like maybe u are being offered the same apprenticeship I was offered funny mine was 1000 bucks more .... the sad part about these kind of apprenticeships is that they only want your money ... they are most likely going to teach you the basic min. they have to and then shoove you out the door , they will prob in the time your there accuse of of stealing and also talk crap about you to thier customers ... the problem is that yes you learn how to set up a machine , you can color and do lines but not the way you should be and not with the knowledge you should have ... you are taught nothing about sterilization or cleaning processes .

All I have to say is just say no !! seems like the guy who has been answering you is leading you in the right direction listen to him !!
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EvilJay
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Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:02 pm

ASHLEY wrote:good i think this guy is a good teacher. i told him about the other shop and he said he knows the guy and that hes a ass for not even saying any thing about needle making or cleaning. thanks for your help and thank the tattoo gods for me! :D :) :twisted:
Found that "Caps Lock" key, ehh.... :)
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1sicv8
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Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:20 am

:lol: haha i was about to say the same thing.... lol

good luck on becoming an artist
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